5 thoughts on implementing Ai
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Herbie Hancock, the renowned jazz musician and innovator, has shown a significant interest in artificial intelligence (AI) and its potential impact on music and society.
Hancock's Perspective on AI:
AI as a tool for creativity: Hancock views AI as a powerful tool that can expand creative possibilities for musicians, acting as a "creative assistant" rather than a replacement for human artistry.
Embracing technological advancements: Throughout his career, Hancock has consistently embraced new technologies, incorporating electronic instruments and synthesizers into his music and pushing the boundaries of jazz. This makes his current interest in AI a natural extension of his innovative approach.
Focus on the positive potential: While acknowledging concerns about AI's potential drawbacks, Hancock tends to focus on its positive aspects and the potential for it to improve the world.
Ethical considerations and human responsibility: Hancock emphasizes the importance of ethical considerations in AI development and encourages treating AI with respect, believing that humans, who created AI, have a responsibility to "raise" it mindfully.
Broader human implications: Hancock's interest in AI extends beyond its impact on music. He is concerned about the broader societal implications of AI, such as its potential to affect employment in various fields.0 -
I'm kinda sworn not to comment on this subject cuz it starts divisive fights...but I have to proclaim that the joy of righting, playing, and singing my own music/songs will probably forever keep me out of the artificial wonderland.
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Like any technology, there are upsides and downsides. It's definitely empowering, both for people who couldn't perform and record before, and for those who want to extend their abilities and try new things. And it runs the risk of flooding the world with cheap crap, making it harder for musicians & performers to earn a living, and maybe de-skilling people as we rely on it more and more. We are yet to see where things will land, but I don't think it's going away.
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@StoneFlowers yeah, I hear you. Over the years Ive become more of a songwriter than performer. I used to perform in bars and threw it occasional original.
There's nothing wrong with wanting to perform yourself and do your own instrumentation, and should always be an audience for it.
I think fights happen because people who are playing , get a sense that they are better than those using AI...not true.
Not all ai songs are the same some are clearly better in writing and in choosing the arrangement
Still takes a good ear and knowledge. And talented people will always fare better0 -
@RainyDayMan , yes it has caveats.
I think the direction I'm heading with it is using everything I come up with and using ai as the band.
Same exact thing as having a backing band...only ai listens and doesn't have an ego.
I got started out of curiosity and it's fun .
And it's the wave of future0 -
Yes, that's about my sweet spot as well. I enjoy writing music, but no one wants to hear me perform it - not even me! An AI cover of my song that keeps the melody and mood, but just does it better is what I'm after.
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I agree with @StoneFlowers that there is no need of any argument in this case. AI can be useful if used judiciously, but as he says in his response, the joy of conceiving a song idea, crafting the melodies and writing out an entire arrangement by oneself is unparalleled and it helps one to connect with ones core. That is priceless.
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But songwriting is two parts, lyric and melody. Crafting out melodies, is one half of it what about Bernie Taupin? He wrote all his songs with Elton John.
He's still a brilliant lyricist whether he uses ai, or Elton John. And Elton would still make great music if he used a different lyricist, or ai, although I don't think ai writes very deep lyrics at all
And arranging is a totally different thing.
I did everything myself forever.
Not like I can't and I know what you mean, it's a satisfaction thing when it's completed.
And not everybody can do everything. and not everybody does it well.
And not everybody has studied composition to an extent where they can create arrangements
A song can still stink even if everything was done by one person and even professionals are capable of writing crap.
I've listened to songs done by the individual on these forums for years, some are atrocious, some are good, very occasionally some are really great.
Same exact thing with people using AI0 -
It's fine to use AI on this forum, please label it when you do so.
It's fine not to use AI on the forum. Or to choose not to listen to AI generated songs.
People have different opinions on AI. And it tends to be like religion:- people seldom change their view once it's been established. You're unlikely to see people suddenly having a change of heart!
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@RainyDayMan
That's true, they are unlikely to change my mind, and those who are using it here
i personally don't like Advertising the ai, and I haven't seen anybody here say they are using it.., it's easy for me to hear. I obliged that rule.
I guess cause I'm still experimenting with it. Not sure what the future holds, but maybe that's why I didn't mind saying I'm using it
But I think with two schools of thought, it might be hard to co exist.
Most people here are songwriters, some lyricists some melody, some both.
Some perform.
Since pro tools started people have been using artificial means of recording demos.
Even punching in is not natural. And pitch correction, and special effects, click tracks, harmonizers.
It's funny, nobody seems to care about a drummer, when just about everybody uses software to replace them.
Drummers dealt with, suddenly our role gets reduced and it's a problem.
If your going to critique the performance, take all tech into consideration
I tend to focus on the song, and if I like it. How you got there, not a biggie
My two0 -
AI is definitely not a problem. As long as it is aiding the process of creating better songs, then by all means it should be harnessed.
I am not sure if you have been following the very recent controversy that has been unearthed at Spotify.
Spotify has created a virtual AI band - Velvet Sundown (none of the musicians are real) and have conceived a body of work for the band which has garnered close to 336,000 monthly streams on Spotify. So essentially all the streaming royalties have gone to Spotify, because of the audience listening to virtual music from a virtual band :) Thats quite bizarre I have to say and clearly portends the shape of things to come in the music industry going ahead
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@arnabs dude, there are people with hundreds of thousands or millions of hits on you tube, using 100% ai
We could blame the current state of music. If the stuff on the radio was as good, people would be listening.
Ai is capable of doing much better stuff on the radio. Especially when used by musicians and people who know what they're doing.
It's scary in a way. We all could be replaced.
So far, I haven't heard anything by ai that's better than my sll time favorites.
There's still that need to connect with other humans.
But it does show that kids don't care about the history of music, they want something different.
Ai is this generations hip hop..which everybody said took no talent...not true.
I think it's a novelty. It will die down a bit. But I think at least for me, I should learn about it, cause it's not going away.
It also puts into question all music...
Did you write that? Did ai write it?
In the end what's gonna matter is if it's any good, regardless how it's done0 -
While at heart I'm a lyricist and the music part baffles me, I'll stick with YouTube backing tracks but always wondering if some of them are AI of which in all probability some of them are. So. Any statement I make on this thread would be hypocritical. However, I don't feel at this moment the want nor need to engage with SUNO and such.
Renee
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@HummerWisdom
Use whatever feels comfy to you. End of the day, you're hoping for a song or recording that somebody likes.
I've heard alot of music online, and some is good some is awful.
I'm not sure how somebody can justify neglecting ai, due to ego, when their music is unlistenable anyway
Songwriters used to send their rough recording into demo services and pay money it.
I've never once read somebody on these forums say anything to people buying demos.
I'd say your less involved telling a demo studio to do your music, least ai you ate in control of what's used and what isn't, and you guide the process.
I still love people playing real instruments, that won't change0 -
People buying demos should say they paid for it , people using samples should say it, people punching in hundred times should say it.0
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Check this out. Love Rick beato, and of course it's an ai band. Somebody figured out a way to market it
https://youtu.be/3Nlb-m_vKYM?si=fAiwVluJhzCFMPLh0 -
Well its the same old story as the beginning of AI , its stolen tracks , as Rick pointed out on the end of vid
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Just one person's opinion/perspective here. Those who can adapt to the 'new reality' (a reality that includes A.I., not necessarily a reality that incorporates it) will have the best chances of survival in the 'post A.I. world. those who want to demand that the world must not change will most likely be left behind. The new reality is likely (in my opinion) to demand accomodation from nearly everyone. And, there is every likelihood that this will be a bigger change demanding bigger adjustments from more people than most of the past "accomodations to new technology." I don't know what is going to happen any more than everyone/anyone else does. But it seems like there are times when it is wise to make plans for things changing around us. I'm neither promoting, nor disparaging A.I. I suspect that things have changed in the music world, and I don't yet know how or to what extent. But I'm preparing to make an adjustment. I desperately hope that people don't stop writing songs with real instruments and real vocals. But it's almost certain that there already is another group to compete with in the 'marketplace of musical ideas.' I'm neither happy, nor sad about that. I do intend to try to survive and thrive in the 'post A.I. world.'
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One other quick note. You wrote, "And it runs the risk of flooding the world with cheap crap, making it harder for musicians and performers to earn a living.
I'm going to add a perspective to that. There is a glut of 'cheap crap' coming out of A.I. I listen to as much A.I. as probably anyone. A large percentage of what is there is (in fact) 'cheap crap'. But the "Cheap Crap" isn't the problem. It's only going to compete with lower end real musicians who are providing similar quality. Crap competes with crap, not with quality. The real problem (as I see it - and again it's just one person's opinion,) is that a small percentage of what is coming out of A.I. is NOT 'cheap crap.' A small percentage of what is coming out of A.I. is able to compete with some professional musicians. The fear expressed here a few months ago that A.I. would be just popping out a glut of what was called 'radio ready songs' is (in my opinion) unfounded. Nothing I've heard from A.I. is anywhere near demo quality, much less 'radio ready.' Literally everything I've listened to still needed to have a professional producer's ear and talents applied, and a professional to set the levels and fine tune the songs. That doesn't mean it's 'crap.' It means it's a few steps away from being all that it can be. . . just like almost everything else we hear on soundcloud etc. are at least a 'few steps away.' The Fears that A.I. would compete seemed ridiculous to me just five short months ago. Now, I'll be surprised if they do not compete. The note above about the artificial band building a following on spotify is evidence of that. AND. . . it's almost certain that with Spotify's resources, they have had their compositions professionally produced, mixed etc. It's going to be an absolutely fascinating journey through the next few years.
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I just broke my own self agreement to not comment below. I either have a death wish, or a thick skin. 'o)
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Cheap crap music is still very much the problem. Many ai tracks are bad because the writing is bad and the user doesn't have a good sense of melody and music in general.
I think what rdm was saying is that any tom dick or harry will be creating music, saturating the places where music can be placed.
And getting good sound with their crap music, so they don't even notice it's crap.
Crap music has always been around, the difference now is there will be thousand times more if it to sift through.
I agree though, have to adapt, I never mastered home recording and it kept evolving so fast, and I was never able to get the recording I wanted.
This time I'm gonna figure out my role in all the craziness0 -
As I see it, much of this is about people who use Ai trying to justify what they do. To my knowledge, no-one on this forum has ever said they shouldn't do it. Indeed, Owen has stated clearly that Ai generated music is welcome here. However some of us who don't use Ai to create music or lyrics will tell you that we don't like it, and we have a right to our opinion. I have some very strong thoughts, but the last thing we want here is another round of flame wars on the subject. I think there's room for everyone.
Here's an interesting article which is definitely food for thought:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainment/ai-band-hoax-velvet-sundown-1.7575874
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What specifically don't you like about it? do you feel it's cheating in a way? I know that's been stated before.
And you're correct, there is room for everyone. AI is a tool, just like another musical equipment. If I was a musician, would I use it? Probably, because I can play with different genre's, melodies, in a matter of seconds.
the downside, after using it for so long, is that sometimes it's frustrating. No matter how I prompt, if I don't want screaming, I'll get 5 tracks of that. Or I'll hear the vocals and melody almost identical in a few other songs. Or I'll have a melody in mind and trying to figure out the prompts to match. It's those times, I wish I could sing or play the piano.
On average, how long does it take for your process. from writing the lyrics, to the final product?
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What don't I like?
Firstly, the training of Ai amounts to theft. Nothing we can do about that now, the damage is done. It's complicated I know, because you could argue that what I do amounts to borrowing from what's already been done..in my case a long time ago. But I do try to avoid blatantly copying anything. If I think something I've created sounds too close to something else, I'll re-write it or bin it.
Second, and most of all, the human element. Ai now has a huge place in creating music for TV/Film and advertising..that was bound to happen. But when it comes to music for entertainment, it's always been about the personalities behind the music and not just the songs (probably why I wasn't destined to be famous!!). I really can't see Ai ever replacing that. Whoever is behind the Velvet Sundown (assuming that it is Ai) has given it a damn good try. From what I've heard it's a good album, but do we really want to see holograms of imaginary musicians at a gig. That bubble will surely burst.
Finally, the joy of learning to sing and play, perform and write songs is part of the human condition...as is listening to it and going to watch musicians play. What possible reason is there to replace that with something artificial?
But I understand why lyricists who can't sing and play like to use the likes of Suno and others. And it's here to stay no matter what I think. I've never had any wish to fall out with anyone over it, and yes there is room for everyone.
On average I'm lucky if I can complete one song a month. I'm happy with that knowing that I've done everything from scratch. If what others do with Ai makes them happy, then who am I to say they shouldn't do it. It's still music, and there's the conundrum!😀
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There Is an article that I posted where Suno is working with the major studios to compensate the artists for the music they sample.
Digital music has been used in TV / Movies for quite some time. AI just speeds the process up.
I agree with the point that AI will never replace a live performer, whether it's a band or individual performer. people still want to have the experience of seeing somebody live perform, especially at local clubs. People also want to go to dance clubs and watch a somebody stand behind a mixer, push buttons :)
I don't have the patience to spend a month on a song :).. Although I have spent 5 years working on one painting.
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I`ve heard about this:
Clapping and Voice were first i believe. Than the Bone-Flute, and Stone or Wood Drums
When mankind could work with wood, we built wood instruments. Violin, Guitar, Flutes ...
When he was able to work with metal, we built Trumpets, Trombones ...
when the Computer was introduced we built Synthesizer and Electronic Music was born. Keith Emerson from ELP was one of the first i believe who made the Sound famous in the 60`s with his huge Moog-Synthesizer.
Now we have AI and it will get used.
I try to avoid it at any cost, cause i believe it kills authenticity. I don`t like this polished, overproduced songs, they bore me. I don`t feel them. Most Studio-Versions bore me. I luckily grew up in a time, where musicians had competition with their skills. You had to be better than the other guy, otherwise you were out.
Nowadays people fake and steel riffs and are not able to perform them... c`mon 4 real? :D:D:D:D
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It's still possible robots could perform live..... Lol
And it likely will happen at some point. If I see a robot signing an autograph, that might do me in!
I don't think anybody alive today needs to worry, real musicians are on YouTube by the thousands.
Maybe there will be robot football, with owners not having to worry about players getting injured.
But I think humans will always have a fascination with what other humans can do.
Like fir example, we could Google any question on Jeopardy, and get them all, but there will still be an interest in watching a human do it with their brain too.
I predict that ai and humans will merge abilities, and they will also be only ai, and only human people, all doing it.
And it won't be a question of who is doing what, but do I like this?
Human or ai are not automatically good because they re who they are, but what does the listener get out of it.
I don't believe humans or ai have ever done much originality.
In order for music to be recognized by the ear, it must be similar enough to follow.
Humans to me , will always have the edge in creating something new.0 -
I just recently dove into AI for music. To preface, I am a software engineer. I am also a musician - I'm not great at any one particular instrument and just okay at most: piano, drums, guitar, bass, vocals. I've worked for years to know how to play and sing, but I'm just not at a professional level on any instrument.
What I LOVE to do is bring a story to life through writing lyrics. Wait, I LOVE playing music too, but personally I can't compete with AI. It's just better than what I personally can do. I've worked with skilled musicians, and frankly I would take that process, albeit much more time consuming, over the instant production of AI any day. It's also way more fun and a much better product IMHO.
But, having a tool that lets me hear my creation instantly is addicting. Being able to hear the same set of lyrics as a country ballad, pop rock, screamo, indie, or heavy metal jam is very cool - to me. If I were making my living as a studio musician, I might feel differently. Then again, if I were good enough to make my living as a studio musician, I wouldn't be that worried about AI.
Just my .02.
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@dbloodworth
It's a gift to lyricists, in that in the old days you had to find a collaborater, maybe somebody not very good, or good, but maybe not seeing your vision. Stuck with one style.
It gives you endless possibilities, as you say can test new genres or creating genres.
Get results quickly, so you immediately know if your headed in right direction.
It's really same as a singer songwriter who has a band at his beck and call. They make it happen under his or her direction.
But it's also now more than lyrics. You can sing your song into it and it will arrange your song. You can play your instrument and it will follow you. Can use your chord changes and your riffs and melodies.
On top of it all it's great fun. I'm on board with your thoughts0 -
I love that you said that you BELIEVE it kills authenticity. Correctly labling your opinion AS an opinion makes almost anything you say unassailable and appropriate. I just wish more people understood that concept.
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