How do we make magic happen on TSF?
We've had a bumpy ride on the forum lately. How to manage AI, and how best to organize the site are contentious issues.
I'd like to ask a different, but related question:
How do we make magic happen on TSF?
What do I mean by that? On a different site years back, I posted a song and somewhat facetiously wrote "Insert scorching guitar solo here" at the break. And someone did. They messaged me and offered a beautifully crafted guitar solo I could never have created myself. It made the song. It blew me away and still does. It was a special moment and made my entire time on that site worthwhile. it made me feel part of something special and larger than myself.
In a different experience here on TSF a newbie arrived, full of passion and ideas but with little experience. They had talent, but their lyric was all over the pace. I offered to help them shape it into a more structured form: verses/chorus etc, evening up the lines, putting in a rhyming scheme. At the end of it, they messaged me and said it was the first time they looked at their words and recognized it as a song. It was the first time they felt like a songwriter. I felt humbled. I had no idea. For me it was a routine editing exercise, for them it was life affirming. It was their magic moment.
Folder structures and site organization are one thing. There are pros and cons to any arrangement. But moments like this are worth a year of normal postings. At least to me. When I talk about not isolating people from each other, and deliberately mixing people together of different skills and styles and ability this is what is in the back of my head.
So I ask you genuinely and sincerely:
How do we make magic happen on TSF?
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We do it by growing through feedback and working together on songs. Through ideas and exchange of thoughts. Not by: your lyrics are fine but I can write them better than you…or by discussing if we should use AI or not. To me sometimes the small things make the difference, if someone tells me „dude that line/chorus/vers is brilliant!“ I fly high, but I’m always thankful for a honest: „no you can’t say that the way you did, try…“
You know English is not my first language and sometimes my cell types crazy words (no it’s not me! 😅) but it seemed to be ok on here. No one laughed, or whatever.
Sad is that I’m to far away from almost all of you to do some kind of collaboration and I miss the times where I could sit down with my friend on the piano and just „work things out“, but on the other hand: here I can get input and ideas from ppl around the world. …shame that we can’t just come up with a „chat meeting“, I’d really like that.
But yeah…all in all we do magic by working together and by accepting the different talents of each other. Ai or not ai…. I’m not familiar with this stuff at all…shouldn’t stand in the way of bringing smiles to ppl faces.
Ps: sometimes I think this forum needs a place where you can look at and Analyse (hit-) songs we know and like. By talking with each other about one song (lyrics and or music) we could learn even more.
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Appreciate your input @RainbowKeeper .
Specifically on the Chat issue, we did have that function for a while on the prev version of the site. Sadly it flopped and was removed. I think the main reason is one you also mentioned: different time zones. Whenever you went into the Chat area no one else was around. It turned out to be easier to leave messages via PM or just post as usual. That said, it might be possible to set up a Discord server for members to use, but we might need to think about how to use it effectively.
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Hey Owen, I think you don’t even need a real time face to face chat for what I mean, you can also post stuff below or talk in pms about it. Same as we do below our own stuff we could go ahead and analyze songs of artists we like, or songs in a style we always wanted to achieve…and so on. I think this would be worthy waiting for a message from the other side of the world 😊 anyway hope I could have been helpful 😉RK0
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You are most welcome to post comments or analysis of artists, or just a general "Hi" to the world here in the General Discussion area. Go ahead any time you want! But keep the Original Songs sections clear for songs to be reviewed (as you already do!)
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Perhaps a new category called "Help Me Write This Song"
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As someone who's been here a while, I believe that there's still a lot of magic happening here on TSF. Sure things have been a bit rocky lately with some awkward decisions which we can't all agree on sometimes. Honestly, I wouldn't be in your shoes! I think one thing, someone else thinks the total opposite..you're damned if you do & damned if you don't! Whatever I may think, I get what you say about not isolating people - and we shouldn't. I must admit I was feeling pretty negative the other day and I don't run the show!! .
Whatever, I think we should all pull together and put any differences behind us. I'm still on board and if someone wants a vocal, a guitar, a bass line, some drums or just a few ideas, I'll give it a go. I don't have a magic wand but I've still got a few tricks up my sleeve.
Let's do it!!😁
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@StoneFlowers thanks for the suggestion! I'll give you my initial thoughts, but you might have better ideas. This concept reminds me of some categories on a previous version of this site where we had "Songs in Progress" and "Completed Songs". ie "Help me write this song" feels similar to "Songs in Progress" in that it's an invitation to provide constructive feedback and assist them. What then is Completed Songs for? If they post there it discourages constructive feedback, which is what the site is all about. In the past I've been hesitant to make comments to people who posted there for fear they wouldn't be welcome. And that seems counterproductive to what this site is about: "A place for songwriters to get together and help each other write better songs". But if you've seen this working successfully elsewhere I'd be interested to know more.
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@ChrisPrice Chris you are a person who gives far more than they receive here on TSF. I am very glad you are still on board. Moving forward positively is absolutely the right idea. When you have a good bunch of people working together magic happens!
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I'm new here still trying to learn the whole song writer's forum dynamics. I suggest "help me write this song" but really I'm thinking about what a wise person once told me..."keep your mouth shut and your eyes and ears wide open." So, as I hopefully get better at understanding the "ropes" I may have more meaningful suggestions in the future. Meantime, I really like being here.
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Thanks for your kind words Owen. No-one gives more than you do. I confess that I had a wobble earlier in the weekend, but it's sometimes a case stepping back and saying....hey this is a music forum....we're supposed to be enjoying ourselves! Besides, I have a lot of affection for TSF ..joining helped me recover after I got ill a few years back. Trouble is musicians are temperamental by nature - I know - I've had a lifetime playing in bands, and I can be an awkward sod sometimes!!
Anyway, less waffle!! I'm going to make an extra effort over the next few days to try and encourage everyone. I'm working on a new song too. Nothing controversial mind !!
Later😁
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It is good here my friend. Don't ever be put off by any petty squabbles that occur from time to time. They are inevitable, but I've always found this forum to be a positive place to hang out. Ask if you need to know anything. From what I've heard of your songs they're great. Keep 'em comin'😀
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@StoneFlowers I mean it when I say thank you for the suggestion, it shows an investment in the forum and a desire to improve it, and I love that! I'm not sure I know how to make that one work, but please don't be put off making more of them! And if you do know how to make it work please tell me!
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@NickRyder Nick, I thank you for that input, and I'm glad you're even still here to make it. Thought you might have walked!
I think I understand your comments re having separate sections, and I thought your analogy with a supermarket was useful. It is a more efficient way to organize things. You walk in, everything is laid out logically, you get what you came for and you leave and it's very easy. We all use supermarkets. But I want a corner store. I want a place where you don't even get to place your order the first 5 minutes because the shopkeeper is asking after your family. You go to the shelf for soup and beside it is a can of some beans from Africa you've never heard of. And the shopkeep tells you a story how someone came in one day asking for them and how difficult they were to get, so he orders them in special and that person became a regular. And several other customers tried it and liked it and it's become a staple now. And you wonder whether you should try them too. Then a stranger walks in and you're more likely to say hello because they're probably a neighbor and maybe they could become a friend. And before you know it, it's taken you 30 minutes to buy a can of soup! When a local store gets in trouble a community will often rally round to try to save it, because they love the place and value the experience they have whilst they are there. When the supermarket closes you look up where the next closest one is. I understand the value of a supermarket, but I want a corner store.
I can tell from your songs already that you're a talented songwriter with a lot of experience.If you decide TSF is not for you then I wish you luck with your songwriting wherever you end up. If you decide to stick around I hope that the collaborations and interactions you have with other members outweigh the disadvantages for you of how the site is laid out. I'm not planning to change the folders, but I hope I get a chance to know you better.
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Thank you.
Very satisfied loyalty card holder.
P.S. Those African Beans still on special!
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I have a couple of ideas and opinions. In my opinion, there is already a LOT of 'magic' happening here. Huge talent and skills on display in some cases, and people BUILDING skills and developing talents. In my opinion, THAT is really exciting. So, I think a more useful question would be how can we MAINTAIN, IMPROVE, and ACCENTUATE the already existing reasons for excitement?
Here are some of my ideas for how to do that.
- As individuals, we can ensure RECIPROCAL listening and commenting. If someone listens and/or comments with respect, they should get reciprocal listens, reciprocal comments, and reciprocal respect.
- One of my standards is that I won't say anything I don't really mean. Flattery is disrespectful if it's not genuine. I can nearly always find something genuine and decent to say about any effort here.
- I'll periodically 'go fishing' and listen to new people who haven't already established that they listen and comment. Sometimes, it's up to ME to initiate the conversation.
- I'm not sure this one belongs here, but I'll include it anyway. If I respectfully respond to someone's offering, and they neither acknowledge or reciprocate, then I don't bother them anymore. There are others who I feel deserve my attention. That relates to 'reciprocal listening.'
- I try to keep it in the front of my mind, that an audience is the component that 'completes' art. It's the audience that FUNDS the music industry. . . who is more important than THAT? If I want to HAVE an audience, I need to RESPECT the audience. I have to GROW the audience. I have to LISTEN TO the audience to establish what they like. If I want to HAVE an audience, I have to spend time BEING an audience. This is such a fundamental principal for me that I cabn't believe it ever has to be said. But so many (not necessarily here b.t.w.) want to HAVE an audience to follow and admire them, but don't want to provide reciprocal respect etc.
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Not sure if this has been suggested but what about a new category something like "Songs & lyrics for Collaboration"
Someone who has lyrics but no music or vice versa.
I'm sure with everyones talents we could produce some great stuff.
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Collaboration can be a wonderful thing! Always glad to see it happen.
I think members can use the existing folders for that. If you see a lyric you would like to set to music, just contact the lyricist. Most of the time it will be well received. There are fewer pieces of music posted without lyrics, but that does happen occasionally.
And of course if you would like to start from scratch with someone, just PM them. They may or may not want to, but it's unlikely they will be offended. It's a compliment to be asked.
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The magic of SWF for me is just being here among like minds, hearts and souls with the ability to publish my songs and to receive vital feedback. I'm very happy to have stumbled upon such a wonderful and warm group of people from all over the world.
The magic is in receiving...and giving back. And also, just knowing somebody out there in the world is eager and willing to read my lyrics and listen to my songs with open ears; that's magical enough for me!
Thank you, Owen for your dedication in keeping SWF alive and well,
Renee
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Howdy, Stranger!