AI Experiment
This isn't a song for feedback, I'm just sharing an experiment I did using AI to generate a song: music and lyrics.
For the lyrics I used ChatGPT and Claude.AI [free versions of both]
For the music I used Suno.ai V3 [free version]
I prompted ChatGPT and Claude with a first verse, chorus and title, and let it finish the song for me. Frankly I was a bit disappointed with the results there. Although it did create rhyming lines in context with the song, they weren't very good. I did use the occasional phrase like "beneath his dusty hat", but the main benefit I got here was inspiration for new ideas. I think currently any of us would write a better lyric, and I ended up writing 95% of the lyric myself.
I found the Suno.AI generator much more impressive. Though it has limits, it is already something I can see generating a usable demo with investment in time and effort. Given the rapid improvements being made in AI I can also see this becoming simple with good results for a whole song within a year or two.
At the moment Suno is limited to a 2 minute song, with the ability to generate an additional 1 minute after that either from the end, or from a nominated point in the song (timestamp). I entered the lyric from above, and for the music description I entered "Country, female vocal" just because it is something I could not do myself. Suno generates two versions for you when you hit the button, and I got it to do another 2, then extend a couple of them with the extra minute. You can't extend beyond this, or at least not on the free version. I ended up splicing the verses, chorus, solo, bridge and ending from different versions, and you can tell, it's a bit rough in spots. This wasn't a set and forget exercise - but nor was it complex. I got the whole thing done in under two hours without familiarity with Suno - though I do have experience using my DAW.
So without further ado, here is the result - see what you think. Are we all out of a job soon?
Link to music:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1y9EJsDbY9ZSwgOG5Y3CnpbqAbSg7Qz59/view?usp=sharing
Rough Skin Around a Tender Heart
Verse 1: Calluses on his fingers and tattoos up his arms Grease up to his elbows fixing someone else's car Cursin worsen a whiskey-soaked cowhand He's no bathin beauty, but he'll lend a man a hand Chorus: He ain't no prince charmin' Don't talk like a movie star Smokes more than he ought to Loves a stool at the bar But he'll always treat you gentle And he'll offer you his arm He's got rough skin around a tender heart Verse 2: Feet are cold as lumps of ice, his beard is streakin' white But his laugh is warm as whiskey 'round a campfire at night Won't talk to you 'bout passion or romance But he'll pull you in real close and slow dance Chorus Bridge: Beneath that dusty hat, lies a warm and gentle soul He's a shoulder you can lean on, a promise you can hold He'll love you with his every breath until his dying day But don't you go and try to change his ways Chorus
Comments
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Very interesting project @RainyDayMan. I enjoyed my listen. The music it created does sound somewhat novel in one sense, yet formulaic in another. At several inflection points in the song, I anticipated a chord or note, yet the track abruptly moved in a different direction. Those parts felt a little rushed to my ears, but just barely.
Nice work on the lyrics, which you mentioned were 95% your own. 😀
AI may someday replace songwriters, but it will never replace music created from a human's soul and the imagination of a human being's brain.
I have a paid subscription to ChatGPT that I've used for the past couple of years to help ease the burden of writing mundane Python code for one my small businesses. I recently sought its advice while working on the music for Under Her Hypnosis. I had the melody of the chorus worked out, but I couldn't find a chord to transition from three bars of Ab to a bar of A to fit my melody. I was stuck and needed a single bar of a chord that I couldn't find to satisfy me, despite trying numerous ones that did not work. So, I asked ChatGPT to suggest all possible chord variations for a single bar to transition from Ab to A that didn't violate any music rules and also sounded pleasant to the human ear. ChatGPT suggested 12 possible chords for the bar. I had already tried six of the ones it suggested. One that it suggested was Dm combined with bass A. That worked for me! So, I can see it as a tool for summarizing all possible options when stuck. I can't see using AI to write a song though, except maybe for fun as you did. Otherwise, it defeats the purpose. 😀
I'm looking forward to AI allowing the creation of far better and more realistic backing tracks, where the songwriter composes each note and chord for an original song, then feeds those to AI to create numerous options of drums, bass, keys, synths, guitars, percussion, horns, etc. Sure, there are some tools that offer that now (and have for years), but it needs to be MUCH better for a full and real band effect that can bring an original song to life without having to hire session players.
Also, I do agree with you that AI can be used as a tool to stoke the imagination, but I draw the same inspiration from watching a romantic scene in a movie. 😀
Anyway, nice work on your AI experiment.
Cheers,
Joseph
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I'm further exploring the AI ideas mentioned by @RainyDayMan. Two tools that I experimented with on a trial basis were Audimee and Musicfy. Audimee allows a user to upload a vocal and then train a voice on it using AI and a host of actual artists. I trained a female vocalist named 'Nicole' using my vocals from my new track Under Her Hypnosis, and then used her voice for backing vocals. This isn't the mix I will use for my final demo, but it was fun to play around with. The way the process works it takes a real vocalist's patterns, such as Nicole, she (or he, depending on which vocalist you choose) performs the song using her (or his) own voice using their own voice, patterns, and inflections, etc. I adjusted Nicole's voice too high (up 12 semitones, when I should have used 6), but it affords one the idea of what is possible now with this emerging technology. Of course @ChrisPrice has done something similar on a couple of his songs over the past year, and his application of that sounded great in both songs, so this is capability is not new. But, it's improving a lot and very quickly!
The AI technology is increasingly exciting. First, I have composed a lot of songs specifically intended for female vocalists to sing, so this technology will increasingly allow me to make better demos of those songs to present to real female vocalists to perform. Second, the possibilities for great background vocalists, and even songs as duets (or with callbacks), here is endless. Pretty exciting stuff!
Here is an updated demo of Under Her Hypnosis with 'Nicole' as a background vocalist. Again, this was just for fun. It's not actually part of my planned demo and video for the song, and not intended for feedback per se -- it's just for fun! 😀
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Musicfy is an AI music tool that allows users to convert a voice into an instrument sound. This tool will be awesome for creating fills!
The video highlights some of the features of Musicfy AI. There are others too. I have no monetary interest in this. I'm simply sharing it for educational purposes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI1LCfTx2lI
The entire video is educational and recommended, but skip to time index 8:45 for an example of converting voice sounds into a variety of instruments. 😎
The AI music technology is growing so fast, all tools today may be obsolete by tomorrow.
Again, I see this technology as offering cool enhancements for songwriters, but it should never replace the songs, lyrics, notes, chords, and voices that come from human imagination. If I can't stand and sing my own original songs with an acoustic guitar, then what's the point?
Cheers,
Joseph 😀
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Thanks for posting on those, Joseph. You can never have enough tools in your toolbox!
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An interesting post Joseph, with some helpful, interesting information.
The idea of AI being used to write songs is not something I approve of. As you suggest, AI can do a lot of clever things, and the potential is huge, but it can never have soul at any level. I've heard a couple of examples of music created from scratch by AI and found it to be rather sad and pointless.
Using AI tools, on the other hand, can be very creative. I used Emvoice a couple of times to create some simple backing vocals which I think worked rather well. But I would never use AI to create a lead vocal because it wouldn't be me! I can, however see that a song-writer who doesn't sing might use AI to create a pilot vocal to get an idea over or, as you have done, create a pilot vocal for a female singer to work from. All good so long as we are telling AI what we want from it rather than letting it take over the creative process.
As RDM says, we can never have enough tools, and it will be interesting to see how things develop.
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The idea of AI being used to write songs is not something I approve of.
I fully agree, Chris. Neither do I.
Cheers,
Joseph
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I'm more positive about AI, I think it can have a place. At the moment, the best use would seem to be for lyricists. It's wonderful when collaborations happen, but a lot of the time they don't. Here is a way to get a lyric set to music. As the AI Tools improve I believe there will be increasing control over the style, instrumentation, vocals, etc and it will feel less random. As such it would be a tool to achieve the songwriters vision rather than a replacement for a human. I think there will also be a use for musicians who want to generate a guitar solo, or instrument that they themselves can't play and include it within a work. I do this already, just in a more clumsy way.
I'm not keen on posting totally randomly generated songs with no input from members. That doesn't seem helpful.
But in general, beyond this forum, I think there will be a flood of AI generated songs. They will be used commercially because they cost essentially $0. They will be used on Youtube videos, websites, social media etc because you won't get copyright strikes against you. And they will probably be generated in the millions in the hope of getting a hit song. The internet thrives on money and attention, and here is a means to generate that at scale.
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Some very interesting thoughts and comments here Owen. I'd only really considered this from the point of view of a musician/songwriter. I have no problem about using AI tools - I've recently dipped my toes in the water here and I'm sure they will become much more powerful - the AI tools, not my toes!!😂
I'm sure you're right about AI generated music being used a lot in the future for advertising/social media, even the film industry. As you suggest it would make perfect financial sense, but it worries me that this could spill over into the music industry as a whole. Which sort of brings me back to my point about not liking the idea of AI written songs! I tell myself that AI music could never have soul. I hope I'm right!
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Well now you have me trying to imagine powerful toes!!
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😂Ha ha!!
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I'm sure AI is being used now to analyze hits and what's working on radio , Since I can't see the future what AI will eventually will do , Its hard to say .
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@sidshovel has demonstrated some of the potential of AI with his recent post. I found that quite scary - not in an entirely negative way. But I guess I'm old fashioned. I just don't like the idea of songs being entirely written and performed by machines because it can't have real soul. But I totally understand the potential economics of it.
Sid came up with an interesting comparison about how machinery and automation cost many people their jobs in Liverpool. It's called progress but it's mighty hard to swallow when you have bills to pay.
My own comparison would be back in the late 60's, 70's and early 80's when synths first had a real impact. Pulse code modulation, and later sampling technology has very much shaped the way we do things now. Back then a lot of people got very uptight about these developments. They were worried that real musicians might lose paid work. And they were right. These days I'm using quite a lot of this technology to create the sound of a full rock band on my own. For me the difference is that I can actually sing and play and I like to think I can write a decent song. I don't need AI to do that, but AI tools...yes, absolutely! Just as well I'm not trying to build a career!
😀
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Hi Chris,
Good to hear your comments. 100% behind what you are saying. The Rubicon has to be the final output. I enjoy working with Ai as a tool. Being able to listen to my Lyrics helps me improve my writing and understand the interaction between the two, something I practically couldn't do before. I'm not qualified to comment on the technical aspects of 70's/80's music you mention but I do have an interesting update on my use of Ai.
The piece I posted using Ai is turning out to be an anomaly. Subsequent trials using other lyrics has led to about 80% rejection rate as totally unacceptable. Bearing in mind, I'm using a non-musician's ear, a very broad brush indeed! For you it would probably be in the high 90's. Even using a degree of lattitude the remaining 20% are ok but not good. Their abject failure seems to be in the nuances of emphasis, pause and energy. (layman's opinion). The vocals in some areas, (usually the end of lines) to me are very often pedestrian and sterile. The emotion is clinical and not heartfelt.
Today or tomorrow, I'm going to post another Ai composition which I believe illustrates the above mentioned issues.
Look out for it, titled " Just my luck, I've gotta lifetime left to live." I'd really appreciate yours and other musicians comments Chris.
Sid
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As promised, I'll kick off on my limited analysis of the Ai rendered vocals and music.
Firstly you need to prompt Ai by telling it what your looking for, I entered prompt: folk/country, male vocal, slow, sad, the lyrics are my own.
The first five outputs were either too fast or too slow or put the emphasis on the wrong words. Curiously, emphasis problems tended to occur at the end of lines/sections, it didn't handle shortened words too well e.g., an', gonna, could've, etc. Nearly every Ai I've worked on ignores the [intro] instruction and goes straight into the song abruptly, very bad!
In the final chorus it continues the end of line 3 into the beginning of line 4!
It sometimes anticipates wrongly e.g, sings "turns in" instead of "turns an'".
The currency for using Ai is credits, the blurb says 5/song, in reality it's more like 40!
On the plus side, the song wasn't half bad for what I was using it for, hear what my lyrics sounded like.
Please contribute your thoughts
Sid
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I take my hat off to you for going into this full on and the results are quite astonishing. As I said on the main page, it doesn't change some of my reservations about AI, but it's here and so I guess we have to get used to it. The potential really is scary, but as Elvis suggests, it's going to get used big time commercially whether we like it or not. I am looking forward to using AI tools as they develop, but I'm not putting down my guitar any time soon!😀
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Right Chris , I kinda doubt AI will replace a guy standing on stage with a guitar and singing a song , Though robots might be doing it one day .
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Live performances are still something audiences value, and a connection with the people in the band, so I see those remaining an important part of the music industry (and revenues!).
But online I expect to eventually see virtual artists and bands with consistent styles, faces, instruments etc. And if the music is good, people will listen to them. Whether they replace human singers etc remains to be seen, but there are an unlimited number of virtual ones available, so by sheer scale the majority of music might become AI.
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BTW, Kudos to everyone for having a sensible conversation about a sensitive topic, without people going off the rails!!
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I can see a sudden influx of Ai music in the areas of jingles, ads, ringtones, musak, (escalators, call waiting), opening and closing credits in tv/film, incidental music, theatre, backing tracks and sound effects, to name a few.
Sid
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Gentlemen, I have a question for you regarding the song I have just posted, "who's to blame", as soon as I heard the Ai music and vocals I immediately thought of another song. The singer/songwiter is a Mr JB and the song is a bit scary!
What I want to know is, in your opinions, is the music close enough to to be concerned over copyright? (purely academic).
Sid
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Absolutely..however when I read this I must confess that my sense of mischief nearly got the better of me! I thought about concocting a ludicrous and preposterous rant accusing forum members of being AI robots, deep fakes and agents of doom etc! But then I figured that some dude might actually take it seriously and all hell would break loose! I will never grow up will I?!
On a more serious note, I’ve found this discussion really educational. Whilst I’m not entirely new to AI tools, I hadn’t realized just how far things had developed in terms of AI written songs and performance. I don’t think my overall attitude to AI has changed a deal, but I’m coming to understand the positive potential.😀
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That's an interesting conundrum. I'll check your song out and report back. I can see there could be some potential issues like this. AI can't think to itself, 'I've stolen that riff from somewhere'..or can it ?
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Let me help, check the last line of my chorus with Monsters by James Blunt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTFbGcnl0po
While your're there does anyone think Ai can duplicate the emotions, etc in his voice, I don't think so!
Sid
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Definitive answers on copyright can really only come from lawyers/courts. However, I would say if you are not making any money from the song, the chances of being pursued for copyright infringement are negligible. The likely worst case scenario is receiving a take-down notice, or if on Youtube, demonetization of a channel.
There also has to be a threshold amount of melody or lyric deemed identical - “a substantial part” - generally interpreted as an important, recognisable, essential part of the whole.
My guess is that you are ok on this one. But in general it could certainly happen. There are only so many notes to choose from!
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I just had a look at Udio and listened to some examples of AI generated music on there. This really is scary stuff. Some of it sounds incredibly good. I was very tempted to give it a try but I've decided to run for cover, buy myself a couple of beers and write a real song this evening. I might even write something about AI! I'm going to enjoy our band rehearsal all the more next week! We are 4 real musicians - at least I think the other three guys are real!😀
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Do the other 3 band members disappear when you start taking the pills, Chris? 😉
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Ha ha..yes they do Owen. I think I need to change my medication! 😂
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Yes change medication Chris that will help , I guess
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if the goverment sent everyone 500k , no more mental illness
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Food for thought...I've suggested this already on another forum, but I wonder if it might be a good idea to have a separate page dedicated to AI generated music. Just my opinion of course - it isn't up to me. Then again, as AI gets better, what's to stop people cheating and how would we know? These are interesting times.
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