Songwriting Process
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Right that was my first thought also . Knowing my luck they go on credit scores to get in heaven, We take visa or check . these pearly gates aren't cheap
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Hi all, back with part 4 of my supportive piece off the back of RDM's highly informative contribution.
Rhyming aids, any tools to help find that right word are perfectly fine. Don't think it's cheating using websites like Rhymezone, dictionaries, thesauri, etc, most songwriters would be lost without them!
Rhyme schemes are just ways in which certain lines rhyme with others, room/gloom, mate/late, etc. There are quite a few variations of how this is done, RDM touched on a couple. Some are simple some are more complicated. If your just starting to write songs then start off easy. Your verse is 4 lines long, we'll number them 1 to 4, first line is 1 (doh!) Just rhyme lines 2 and 4, 1 and 3 don't need to rhyme. Again to make it easy, rhyme the last words of lines 2 and 4. The important thing is whatever scheme you use keep it consistent throughout the song. Now, to avoid your lyrics sounding too monotonous, change the rhyme scheme in your chorus and/or your bridge, if your using one. Try rhyming lines 1 and 3 in the chorus.
When you get more experienced move on to more interesting/challenging rhyme schemes. Look at the lyric sheets of songs you like and see what rhyme scheme those artists used.
Song Structure, just means how the various song sections are put together. As above, there are a number of options, some easy some hard! Certain types of songs favour one structure over another. In general, there is a degree of conformity but it is far from fixed. If your new to this stick with the tried and tested for now.
Verse – Chorus – Verse – Chorus – Bridge – Chorus
ABABCB
This is the most common song structure in pop music.
As you've probably guessed, A-Verse, B-Chorus, C- Bridge
Play around with this for a while before branching out!
Don't forget the first verse establishes the context of the whole song, but what you also need to try and do is grab the listeners attention in the first line! Asking questions draws the listener in, waiting to hear the answer. Avoid shock, e.g. "My leg fell off last Tuesday!" Probably turns off more than it draws in.
Here's a pretty good resource to expand on song structure: https://mastering.com/song-structure/
This also includes more information on dynamics, the last part of RDM'S synopsis.
Well I hope you enjoyed your rummage into songwriting and if your thinking of trying it, I strongly recommend you do.
Please write in and let us know if there's anything else we can help you with.
Been a pleasure,
Sid
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100 views and counting, well done everyone!
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Good break down Sid
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@RainyDayMan asked: Whilst there is no single songwriting process that will work for all songwriters, or all songs, what is your process? What are the steps you go through from generating an idea to completing a lyric+music composition.
This is a great thread, Owen. Thanks for starting it. I've been reading it off and on for a while, but I was very occupied with business and work until very recently, and I couldn't respond until now.
My songs always begin with a title. I have a long list of potential titles that I've thought up. I try to make the titles unique. For example, I wanted to write a song about an enchantress for my fictional horror novel, so instead of simply "The Enchantress," I created "All One Enchantress Knows." I doubt there are other songs with that title or "Loving Her is Terminal" or "Hedra's Lost Her Mind." If someone wants to write a song called "The Forest" or "Tonight," that's fine, but I prefer to make mine as unique as possible.
Next comes the melody that will form the chorus. That usually involves a lot of random singing with various rhythms and drumbeats in mind around the title and theme I'm working toward. If I'm in the shower singing randomly with my melody and chorus in mind, and I stumble on something I really like and begin repeating it and adding to it, as soon as I'm out of the shower, I grab my phone and record that portion. Most of the time, it's the full chorus. At that point, the lyrics are not set, but the melody is becoming established.
Once that idea is in place and the initial melody I want is solidified, I sit down and create a new project folder for the song and start the outline of the lyrics with the structure laid out. I'll type in my preliminary lyrics for the chorus while singing it a few more times to really establish the melody in my head.
Next, I find the beats per minute (bpm). I usually use Chordpulse, which allows me to find the exact bpm to match my established melody. I do not add chords at this part. I'm simply singing and finding the bpm that matches the meter of my evolving song. Once I have the bpm, I produce a preliminary drum track and record myself singing the song with only the drums the entire way through to ensure I am capturing the exact melody I have in mind for each part of the song. These early vocals are not used on the final demo; they're just for use as a guide to cement my melody and possibly make some changes to the melody as the song evolves.
Next, I take my acoustic guitar and begin searching for the right chords to fit my established melody. I use a chord finder website to remind me of all possible chords that will fit and progress naturally with my initial chords in the chorus. I also use Chordpulse to further help find the chords that fit my established melody. So those three tools are what I mainly use when searching for the correct chords to fit my melody: acoustic guitar, chord finder website, and Chordpulse.
Once I have the chords worked out for the chorus, I make adaptations to the chorus pattern to form the intro section that I have in mind. It's almost always a variation of the chorus.
I typically follow the pattern of intro, verses 1 and 2, pre-chorus, chorus, release (or a middle section), verse 3 (and sometimes verse 4), pre-chorus, chorus, bridge, chorus, and outro. It's not always in that exact format, but maybe 80% of the time it's very close to that.
A very good song is easy to write. After I have the full chorus and intro chords worked out to perfectly fit my established melody, I begin forming the melody for verse 1, if I don't already have it in mind. Often I already do. Then, I repeat the process described earlier to find the perfect chords that fit my established melody for the verses. Then on to the pre-chorus, again looking for the right chords to fit the melody I establish. I try to make the pre-chorus music something unexpected, with an unusual melody shift or chord change.
After I work all of that out, I enter the chords in Chordpulse, select a style, and send the output for MIDI tracks, which have guitars, drums, keys, synths, bass, and other percussion.
Next, I import the MIDI tracks into Mixcraft 10 Pro Studio. I open each MIDI track and alter the notes as needed to fit my exact melody for the song, as well as note durations, note velocities, etc. I often need to add notes to make it fit my vision for the song that I have in my head. That's quite easy to do in Mixcraft. Also, instead of using the generic piano sound in the MIDI track, there are dozens of options to select a richer, and more vibrant piano, acoustic or electric, synth, etc. Any keyboard instrument imaginable. The same goes for bass, guitars, percussion, drums, horns, woodwinds, strings, etc.
I compose and mix the full backing track in Mixcraft 10 Pro Studio, which has a lot of mastering tools and allows VST3 add-ins. Eventually, I will switch to Cubase, because it's a much better DAW, in my opinion. Occasionally, I will play some of the acoustic guitar parts on a song, but usually I just program it in the DAW.
After I have the backing track mixed and balanced, I export it to a zero-compression FLAC file with no effects at this stage. Then I start a new Mixcraft 10 Pro Studio session for vocals and import the backing track. Then, I record the vocals and backing vocals in layers, overdubs, etc.
Finally, I work on mixing and balancing the vocals with the backing track, cleaning up 'dead space' in the vocals, etc., and then mastering the final demo to MP3 and WAV.
For my most recent project, "Under Her Hypnosis," I used Audimee to create some backing vocals using my own voice and vocals as input. I used my vocals from the track to "train" one of the female vocalist's recorded voices, 'Nicole.' I then used Nicole's voice for backing vocals in spots in the chorus and outro, modified to match my original performance. So, all lead vocals and most of the backing vocals on my song are my own, but 'AI Nicole,' trained from my vocals, was used for some of the backing vocals. The 'Nicole' model is based on a real female singer's actual voice.
I don't want to get into a big sidebar, because this post is already too long, but imagine using your own vocals as the training source, and then in 20 years when you don't sing so well anymore (haha!), you can sing your new song, and then use your own vocal model to make yourself sound as good as you did 20 years ago! LOL!!! 🤣 I think by then, I'll just sing folk songs by a fireplace with my acoustic guitar in the living room.
As an amateur songwriter, I love writing songs and performing them. I think I'm a decent songwriter, but my weak point is production and mastering. I'm very technically oriented and computer savvy, yet there must be a gazillion ways to modify the sounds of each instrument and note in a song using a DAW. Sometimes it feels overwhelming to do it all alone. It's frustrating when the song sounds really great on one's home entertainment system, an SUV's stereo, and on YouTube or SoundCloud when played on a PC with great speakers, but then it absolutely sucks on a mobile phone. It all boils down to knowing exactly what one is doing with production and mastering. My skills are sorely lacking in those areas, but I'm always learning.
If I had unlimited resources, I would find a great engineer and go into a studio and record my 15 best tracks with great production and mastering, with great session players. I would focus on the arrangement and ensuring each session player is playing the song as I have created each part in my demo, note for note, and the engineer would focus on making everything sound perfect and blended, and then mastering it all. Ah, to dream! 😎
Cheers,
Joseph
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Thanks for sharing your process Joseph! Your results speak for themselves so it's great to get insight into how you go about it!
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If there is a 'process' that I have NOT utilized, it's because I didn't think of it. I've added lyrics to existing instrumentals. I've added (inadequate) instrumentation to my own lyrics and the lyrics of others. When a line comes into my mind, I seldom (maybe never) have any idea whether it will be the first line, the last line, or the chorus. Very few things I will "never try" literally nothing that I 'always do.' Lyrics are really easy for me. Vocal melodies are less easy, but still not hard for me. Instrumentation is very hard for me. I don't worry that what I'm writing will be inadequate. Everything I write has something within it that can be 'repurposed,' and used to better effect even if the song wasn't good. I've gone back to ten year old songs to pluck what ends up being a really good line in a new song. All told, I think you could accurately say I have no 'process' at all. Or, with equal accuracy, you could say I have a LOT of 'processes.'
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Nice to see people are still reading this thread! Thanks for your contribution, it all helps!
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I write every day, that's my secret recipe. It may not be with a guitar in hand. It may simply be keeping my eyes, ears and mind open to new ideas, new ways of expressing what I want to say. Some of my songs' genesis were siting in a bar room, somebody says something and bing..."there's a song". My girl friend pointed at a car the other day while we were driving and said, "I really like the looks of that car, but the color, that's too blue for me. Bing...To Blue For Me the song is just about finished, I'll be posting it soon.
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Mhhh… how do I write…
Good question!
I usually compare it to „giving birth“ cause I’m often very tired when I’ve finished.
There are different ways. The first is the one I like best, when it comes to me without I have to „work“. It starts with an idea doesn’t have to be a hook yet, but some image and especially feeling gets me and I can write down almost without thinking. Sometimes it doesn’t follow the idea I had at first but that doesn’t matter as long as a good one comes out.
Another possible way is when I get my inspiration from something I see. Sometimes I stare like a child at something and if the connection gets stronger I sometimes start to „see through“ the object which means that I have to write about it. This writing process can take a couple of hours but I can also „be pregnant“ with it for weeks until, suddenly there is the final idea, coming out of myself or when I hear what other ppl say. Sometimes a stranger talking on a bus can be very helpful. But when I start writing the process is the same as mentioned above: it’s strong and sometimes as if someone else is doing the writing and I just know that it had to be written. I often have to take a nap afterwards.
There is also the possible way that it seems as if every single word needs to be searched for hours. As if it won’t find its place and to finish the whole thing is a big fight. I hate it, but I know it has to happen to remind me that it’s real work and not just some piece of cake. Those are the times when I fall asleep during the writing process just to wake up, switch the lights back on and put in the missing and final line and go right back to sleep.
Like I said I don’t have to start with a great hook, maybe because the whole thing is more personal for me, meaning I write out of me and I know why and what I want to say. If others find something for themselves in it it’s great and if ppl start crying while listening it’s even better, but first of all these songs are my little diary. Not that I don’t agree with: a great hook can make or break a song but what I want to express is: it comes out of ME and is somehow a mirror of what’s going on inside of me, so I just write to get out of my chest and if it’s not a „hit“ it’s fine with me. Not all kids are pretty but it needs just one to make a change.1 -
Back in the day when I didn't have kids my process was a little everywhere. It was literally all I thought about most of the time. I would a lot of the time sit in front of the computer with about 20ish seconds of material - just a melody on the guitar or piano - and I would record and add on to it. A lot of my early stuff sounded very disconnected between parts because I would literally layer instruments on just a verse then start fresh with a chorus and keep adding. I think this could work if I had taken the time to re-record most of these and really edit them but it was always an "ill get to that at some point"
As I've grown and slowed down a little, as well as songwriting not taking up the bulk of my headspace, I have tried to find time where I can pick up an instrument and slow down and just let my hands move. Every once in a while I'll stumble on a progression of chords that I like and ill just play it for a while. I'll go days and weeks playing this progression and trying to add in other melodies I have come up with to see how I can fit them together. At some point I will have a full song structure and then start to focus on the lyrics.
I'll try to work out a vocal melody and structure by just humming or saying nonsense words that always end up kind of finding words that fit. I'll take some time to let the song bounce around in my head and every once in a while come up with a line that I like that I'll write down. I'll try out the lyrics and edit them to what I think sounds better to me. Then at some point when I want to record the song I will get out my lyric book and write a sort of rough draft with the ideas that I have had bouncing around. Sometimes I feel rushed to get the piece out, other times I really let it work out by playing it over and over through out weeks or thinking about it a lot, before recording it. It is easier to really map everything out but sometimes I just feel the need to get it out quickly. Not sure why.
When I record I like to really layer in a lot of sounds and instruments. Perhaps too many sometimes.
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I always start with the sound of something rhythmically musical - a chord progression, a riff, or even just a drum beat - and that start is always something that I actually hear because I'm playing it live or I'm playing it back, and is never the mirage of what I might imagine something might sound like.
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Depends if I want to pitch the song to publishers or not , something radio friendly or an artist song and promotion . its tons of work and money to get them right . Do I want to produce the song myself or have a Nashville producer handle it ? Each song is weeks of work and a 2 week turnaround on tracks . is it still fun ? It depends if it sucks or not . it's writing to the hook if I believe in the topic or not personally . I always co-write each song . it's what the listener will relate to , not me really .Each song is dialing for dollars . in a market flooded with songs . if you add the AI songs now , its even more flooded . its taken years to write with commercial language . Over all it's more enjoyable ,than to waste my time discussing politics or religion on pointless theories.
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After listening to hundreds of A.I. Songs in the last three weeks, I wouldn't worry a lot about their 'effect on the market.' While I've heard a lot that ranges between 'listenable' and 'tolerable', I've heard (so far) NOTHING that is 'marketable' without extensive re-work by serious 'players', 'arrangers', 'vocalists' and/or (to put it into general terms) 'WRITERS.' My initial reaction is that this is like a lot of my own music, "A real musician could do something with it, but it's not marketable the way it is." Like me, It DOES create or generate some good ideas, but not finished songs. That's just my opinion of course.
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I know exactly what you mean with the "too blue for me" analogy. I hear things all the time and evaluate them for things to create the genesis of a song. It's automatic. I don't do it consciously. The initial idea often has to rattle around in my brain for a LONG time before just the right way to use it comes along. One that is rattling around in my brain right now is the idea that one drinks to forget. . . but that for someone truly memorable there is "Not enough whiskey in the world" to make me forget her. BTW. . . if anyone wants to take that and run with it. . . go for it. I'm like Doritos. Crunch all you want. . . I'll make more.
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Generally, almost always, I start with an interesting line as it pops into my head. This line may or may not be the hook/title. I am very strict about WRITING IT DOWN, whether it be on my phone or paper; mostly these days on my phone or laptop. Sometimes, I have a melody in mind and if I do, I record it, sometimes just that line or two. I like to take ideas as they come pretty much right away. So, if I'm driving in my car, I turn on the mic on my phone and start writing in the notes app as I'm driving. If I'm working (I independently clean houses, ugh) BUT it gives me ample opportunity to write and or record in between scrubbing and vacuuming floors and such. I actually have written entire lyrics as I work.
So far as the music part, I struggle but generally as I'm writing the words or typing I should say, a melody of sorts comes to mind. Directly after I complete the lyric, I take the guitar and see what happens. Sometimes I hit it on the button other times I have to wait a few days and sometimes, many times my lyrics do not go to song as I'm piled up on lyrics.
I believe, in the songwriting process the MOST important thing to do is to WRITE IT DOWN; that initial spark however small or big. I keep a folder "parts-starts" so in the event my lyric dies on me, I always have it on file to go back to later on if I choose to.
Another thing I find interesting, is, if you're on a roll and previous lyrics or ideas that you got stuck on in the past; when you're on that roll that's the time to attack those old ideas and potentially finish them or at the least move further on with them. I seldom look up the old lyric; I prefer to start from scratch again with the hook/title.
Anyway, I'm sure I could go on but you get the general picture. I appreciate this thread very much as we're certain to learn a lot from each other.
Renee
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AI must have an impact on marketability , or they would not be sued by Sony . I'm guessing it takes more promotion money to get above the AI noise . if Ford sells a car for 30k and a company comes along and sells a car for a penny , Some economic flux takes place
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Lets keep this particular thread about our different songwriting processes.
We have plenty of other threads to discuss AI!
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Weeks of work and tracking , that's the process of songwriting , in my case anyway
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