How Copyright Works Here
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if you use another writers suggestions , you can give them credit
I would not waste money on copywrites, unless you're a pro writer . Most hit songs have co-writers and deal with with publishers and lawyers , the odds on someone stealing your song is zero to none on a forum, And what if by some miracle you wrote a hit song . Have you got a lawyer to sue them if it was stolen ? My guess is no
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To get a proper legal answer, you probably need to consult a lawyer. If the unthinkable happens and you make a lot of money from a lyric/song and it includes specific lines or phrases contributed by a member, would they sue or otherwise expect compensation? Well I can't rule it out, but it seems unlikely. On a day to day basis people won't expect even being credited, let alone included in Copyright unless there is substantial input. But people can get funny when money is involved.
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Agreed. As someone who works in business I’ve seen people who are otherwise pleasant turn vitriolic when we get to the closing table of a deal. One of the business music workshops I attended recommended copyrighting everything as soon as the pen lifts up from the paper. That way even if someone gives feedback it’s a derivative suggestion from an already created work.
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Its a waste of money on paying the government to copywrite a song
Write the song and send it to yourself , its a poor mans copywrite
Your worried for nothing on a forum song, if you were a pro then you can copywrite it
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here is a little different answer. Whatever the two of you agree to is a legally binding agreement. If the two of you agree (as Lennon and McCartney did) to split all ownership 50/50 between the two of them, that is the agreement. If you agree that no ownership is included in the ownership (or 30/70 or 60/40 or 25/75, then that is the agreement regarding ownership. But there is more than 'ownership' of the song at stake. There are two things - 1. Ownership of the song. AND 2. Authorship of the song. Authorship only affects ownership if that is the agreement. BUT, if you and I write a song together, neither of us can exclude the other from authorship of the song. Authorship is painles to share, and it's actually foolish to withhold it for that reason. But (and this is the real message here) DON'T co-write without a clear understanding of who owns what. Now, if you really don't care about ownership of the song (and it VERY rarely matters) then don't worry, but it's still always an exceptional idea to have that conversation at some point before the song is finished. Have the conversation, clarify how it's going to be, and if you feel it's necessary, write up an agreement. As for me, I've quit co-writing with people I need a written agreement with. If I can't trust them, I don't write with them unles I think what we are writing isn't worth bothering with.
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Waste the 45 bucks on lyrics . Tell em your Paul and John from the Beatles
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I appreciate your response. I heard Quincy Jones say in his documentary that when he worked with Frank Sinatra doing arrangement that they worked for over 20 years together and their contract was a hand shake. They never had quarrels about pay. Jones was the same person that years later said, “Music is spiritual. The music business is not.”
My question then is this: on an online forum how do you build up that trust or discern it?
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Why don't you hire a lawyer at $600.00 a hour and get back to us on posting lyrics on a public forum . While you're at it ask him what are the chances of pro writers scouring boards to steal ideas from amateur writers . I'm sure it be amusing . or skip the lawyer become a BMI or Ascap publisher. it cost about a $100.00 bucks . Register the song before posting
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If you feel your songs/lyrics are already of a commercial standard with some chance of making money, then there may be little for you to gain by posting here. What sort of feedback would help you if you are already at that point?
The audience here on this site is other songwriters. People who can give you feedback and suggestions. If that isn't what you are looking for then this may not be a helpful site for you. This isn't a place to gain a large following.
If your songs are not yet of a commercial standard, why are you worried about people stealing them, or latching on to your works to claim a financial benefit?
Post or don't post. It's your call.
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@RainyDayMan I get what you're saying, but I think that there are quite a lot of songs here that are of commercial standard. Arrangement and production are another matter completely, of course, but if we're just talking melody and lyrics and chord progression, there's plenty here that, in the hands of a skilled producer and adequate (but well-known) performer, could hold their own.
But, I completely agree that nobody is going to come here looking for the next big hit, and I would always feel safe posting here. What's the worst that could happen? Lady Gaga is bored one night, stops by here and is just completely blown away by one of my songs. She "steals" it. I politely threaten to sue her. She settles for something she can easily afford but is life changing for me. I buy a modest but comfortable home in France and stagger back from the local cafe every night to post on here, reminding everybody that Lady Gaga stole one of my songs. It's win-win for everybody, with the possible exception of all you jealous losers that never had a song stolen by Lady Gaga and have to listen to me bringing it up at every opportunity.
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Absolutely right Gavin,
That's why Taylor and I have this, "understanding!"
Sid
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Thank you for the humor.
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You asked "How do you build up trust (here) or discern it. That, of course is two questions. We're all total strangers here. Everyone who posts tells us a little about him/herself in every post. The people who seem to get angry for an unrecognizable reason are probably not going to make good collaborators. The people who bring politics into the thread and get mad if anyone disagrees might be people to avoid. Aside from trust, it's not really advisable to collaborate with someone who hasn't produced anything you'd like to be associated.
Part of 'discerning' who to trust is to invest small amounts of trust in your discussions here, and see who can be trusted to actually listen and hear what you are saying, respond respectfully, and make honest attempts to help are most likely to be trustworthy to collaborate with. Unfortunately, part of 'discerning' who to trust involves trusting and getting burned. The trick is to get burned over things that don't matter instead of 'trusting big' and getting burned big. There are quite a few people here whose intentions and honesty I would have no trouble trusting. I'm not really looking to collaborate though.
One element of trust is the importance of humility. The (fortunately very few) here who are sure they are head and shoulders above the rest of us are not good candidates for collaboration, even if/when they are extremely talented. You can find the arrogance just by reading a bunch of posts. Braggarts make poor collaborators. Control freaks make poor collaborators. . . those who have to win every argument, even when there is really nothing to argue about are control freaks.
Of course, you 'build trust' by being trustworthy and calm even when tempers are flying all around you. If you are calm, reasonable, and thoughtful, (and so far, you have certainly give the impression that you are,) just trust your instincts and see who you are attracted to, and (as importantly) who is attracted to what you say and post. That's about all I can suggest. As I said, there are five or six people here I'd bet my life on. Ask me in a private message if you want to know who they are. I'm not looking to hurt any feelings.
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Be quite a compliment to have Lady Gaga steal something wouldn't it?
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I don't see anybody cowriting on this site
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Quincy also said, "When you start talking about money, God leaves the room." Words to live by in my opinion.
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Ain’t that the truth.
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It used to happen occasionally, especially between a lyricist and a musician, though also between musicians, but less nowadays. I've been involved in half a dozen maybe and witnessed others. With the option to use AI, I think that has removed a lot of the impetus.
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Have you used AI in your songwriting practice? Do you recommend it?
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I have used it, though it's not yet my preferred approach. I've tried giving it a lyric and seeing what it can do with it (especially if I don't have any ideas myself) and the results are ok, quite polished, but not better melodically than what I could write. But it keeps on improving and I don't!! Also, there are others on the forum who are getting quite innovative results musically from it, so like everything else, it's probably a matter of investing time to master techniques in that context. I'm more intrigued by the recent feature of giving it your own recording and having it do a cover version. I think my songs are better than my performance, so that could have real value to me. There are copyright issues to using AI though, so if you are going down the commercial route check out the license agreements on Suno et al before using them.
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I was here ten or twelve years ago (approximately) and at that time, there was a lot of collaborations going on. I personally collaborated with at least five other people through this forum back then. It's really all about who's here. There is no forum that is better for collaborating. It's the group of people who either have some people looking to collaborate or do not. It all could change tomorrow.
One note on A.I. I'm pretty certain that the availability of A.I. will cut way down on collaboration requests and collaboration contacts. I'm pretty sure it makes a lot of us 'FEEL' self sufficient. And we might be. . . but I'm equally convinced that human collaborations will not die out.
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I'm sure in the real music world of business , especially Nashville . Writers gather in a room with track guys and lyricists
And write all day and turn them into their boss the publisher, They evaluate what's pitchable in the current market. I highly doubt AI tracks come into the equation
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I honestly don't think anybody uses anybody's Suggestions lol. Not even for copyright reasons but for ego.
I think critiques are a cumulative thing. You might point out something that's a weakness, that I can then try to improve on
Not actually taking any specific line or musical idea
I don't think that falls under copyright anyway. That's more education, or maybe editing.
Wouldn't hurt you to credit somebody if you wanted to...
Copyrights are funny. Congress does not listen to or read what you submit, so how can they say you own anything.
You could submit a Besties song and have it copyrighted.
The real proof happens in court, or really by having a hit with the song1 -
Copywrite is usually done by publisher. Then their pitched
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